Well said. It was revealing how the audience cheered wildly when he ridiculed Christianity but retreated into hushed silence when he dared to mock Muhammed.
It would have been fun to hear Hitchens go toe to toe with Buckley in his heyday! :-)
Interesting video out yesterday when a CNN reporter ~exercises~ her freedom of speech by defacing and stifling another person’s freedoms. An educated, well-groomed and free thinking(snarksnark) Liberal all caught on tape. About 3 minutes long– ice or Ron 2 linky?
Color me unimpressed and pissed at the entitlemental ‘tudes of those who think they are just so freaking much smarter than the average savage.
Karen, I have the same opinion of Hitchens but he did give a convincing, articulate, argument for free speech. [His other arguments are less convincing]. As a former debater, I know that it’s not whose argument is right but whose argument is best expressed who wins the debate. I often debated successfully for ideas that appalled me. This realization alone made me change my college major from pre-law to pre-med. It still makes me a little sick to watch jury trials. :-(
I hear you, ice– but, it would make the perfectly pointed juxtaposition to the Hitchen’s speech. Because, what that Mona chick did was NOT what i call a freedom of speech or expression– it just proved the point of the poster she defaced w/such flair. IMhumbleO.
As for Hitchen’s- well, idk. He had a bit of a rascally charm. At least he only used words– not a destructive action. As far as i know. The woman from CNN was mocking the opposing woman and she was not ~using her words~. ~Use your words~ is a big catchphrase up here in preschool to help kids express opinions and feelings w/out resorting to physical actions or violence. A Liberal sounding phrase- to my ears. Be nice, be kind– respect- accept. Yet, Mona???
The liberals are the bigger squelchers of free speech, not the conservatives. After all, who conceived the idea of ‘hate speech’?
In many circles there is only one way to think [as Orwell portrayed]. And when I hear someone extol the inclusion of ‘like-minded people’, I’m assuming there is gross intolerance of anyone whose thinking is the least bit different.
Freedom of speech and freedom of thought are basic to our other freedoms and must be protected. How closely this concept is embraced depends upon whose ox is being gored, I guess.
karen, that’s so funny! My wife and I started using the phrase “Use your words!” when Catherine got old enough to have words. (Words we understood, anyway.)I don’t think we knew anyone else does it. But it is obvious when you think about it.
I believe that, you believe that– what is the Truth of the matter, then, mockT? That everyone who thinks they are open-minded are not really?
ps– spudly, if you read this… i watched three videos of Margret Sanger being interviewed by Mike Wallace. She is not against abortion– it’s a necessary tool to use when the birth control wasn’t, as far as i understood it. She seriously reminded me of a Dr Phil attendee trying to wiggle out of her own words… “I never said that””I was misquoted” “I don’t believe i’ve ever uttered those words in my life” attitude. Wiggly, wormy and not owning up to her own values.
From reading some of her writing- her interview doesn’t ring anywhere near the truth of her views. I took her for face value- spud, not some right- wing(ed)interpretation of what she was saying.
I also heard an interview w/one young lady– Gianna Jessen. Ever heard of her? Survivor of abortion, aborted @71/2 months of her bioMom’s pregnancy via saline solution and lived to tell the details. Beautiful girl that– if President Obama had his way(or Sanger had hers)would have been left to die w/out assistance.
Google Gianna Jessen, spud. Then do so for Sanger.
One of these things is not like the other………………….
To be honest, Karen, I don’t believe open-mindedness has anything to do with free speech. And I happen believe that if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. I don’t have to be open to your ideas. I don’t even have to listen to them. But you should have the inalienable right to express them.
Karen, I don’t really view that as a violation of free speech. They’re selling advertizing space and they can choose who they want to sell it to.
Now what’s bad is that they’re giving a veto power to anyone that wants to throw a hissy fit about whatever. So the Mayor doesn’t like soft-drinks, so now no more soft drink ads. What’s a cola to do?
I’m working on a post that’s at 1487 words and counting. I’m going to need to learn how to do that “See more below” HTML thingy or I’m going to push Ron’s post right off the front page!
I’ve also got one coming up about just how damned SEXY economists are. Seriously! I hope to finish them both this weekend but we’ll see.
Oh, yeah! I always had the hots for Greenspan! :-p Bernanke is somewhat sexy but lacks Greenspan’s panache. Paulson [the Keebler elf] and Geithner—-blechh!
I recently found out that writing on $$$$ is a crime.
Now i stare at Geithner’s signature on the bills and try to burn ~Tax Cheat~ above his name w/my angry eyes.
Not getting any results, as of yet:0).
Charles Krauthammer is sexy.
I’d love to make him laugh.
I never knew Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran- i’ll have to google her life, i guess.
From Ace:
“Irony: Pam Gellar’s ad is “demeaning,” it is asserted, because it implies that violent, intolerant Salafists are “savage.” Her ad states something like, “In a struggle between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”
Now, the MTA says she can’t run that ad because some people will be unable to restrain themselves from committing acts of violence and mayhem.
Well, that ain’t gonna happen, then! I’m afraid of the dark;0).
Had a funny, touchstone thought while milking, tonight.
Today was a ~party~ for the guy who crushed(literally) the sheriff’s fleet up here back in August and i went to his facebook pg– i don’t have a fbk, so i mooch off’n my oldest daughter’s. Anyway, it’s kind of amazing- the stuff that’s on there and the videos and everything. Roger Pion, the Magnificent- if you’re interested.
To support the cause of raising $$$$ for a lawyer, i bought tee shirts made by his folks. 6- one for each of us. And, now- i’m thinking, i will never wear it nor should i let my kids because what he did was way worse than what Mona did– same line of thought and action and i’m agin it. I know the circumstances of the crime, i feel time should be served. Well, the question is– why am i so pissed at Mona and her crime and yet,supportive of Roger in his fight against his crime?
Maybe it’s as simple as class- as in:class warfare? Up here it’s different (than other places.)(not that i would know, maybe every place is the same). Seemingly, those w/the most class here are imports from other places. Our culture is Redneck. Mona would sneer and avoid rednecks, i think. If the savages in the poster had been Rednecks- she would have not given a 2nd look or thought. Besides, it wAS OBVIOUSLY A SET UP, EXCEPT FOR THE OPPOSITION OF pAM. oOOoOPS, i always do that:0).
I wonder why i care so much- why it bothers me so much?
I really need to chill out.
Ambiance 
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 1:27 am
Well said. It was revealing how the audience cheered wildly when he ridiculed Christianity but retreated into hushed silence when he dared to mock Muhammed.
It would have been fun to hear Hitchens go toe to toe with Buckley in his heyday! :-)
amba (Annie Gottlieb) said,
September 28, 2012 at 1:44 am
Yikes, it’s 20 minutes long. Who has time!
karen said,
September 28, 2012 at 8:24 am
Interesting video out yesterday when a CNN reporter ~exercises~ her freedom of speech by defacing and stifling another person’s freedoms. An educated, well-groomed and free thinking(snarksnark) Liberal all caught on tape. About 3 minutes long– ice or Ron 2 linky?
Color me unimpressed and pissed at the entitlemental ‘tudes of those who think they are just so freaking much smarter than the average savage.
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 8:55 am
Karen, I have the same opinion of Hitchens but he did give a convincing, articulate, argument for free speech. [His other arguments are less convincing]. As a former debater, I know that it’s not whose argument is right but whose argument is best expressed who wins the debate. I often debated successfully for ideas that appalled me. This realization alone made me change my college major from pre-law to pre-med. It still makes me a little sick to watch jury trials. :-(
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 9:08 am
Karen, I just don’t feel like linking to that kind of thing. I’m just sick of the whole damned thing, sorry.
karen said,
September 28, 2012 at 9:38 am
I hear you, ice– but, it would make the perfectly pointed juxtaposition to the Hitchen’s speech. Because, what that Mona chick did was NOT what i call a freedom of speech or expression– it just proved the point of the poster she defaced w/such flair. IMhumbleO.
As for Hitchen’s- well, idk. He had a bit of a rascally charm. At least he only used words– not a destructive action. As far as i know. The woman from CNN was mocking the opposing woman and she was not ~using her words~. ~Use your words~ is a big catchphrase up here in preschool to help kids express opinions and feelings w/out resorting to physical actions or violence. A Liberal sounding phrase- to my ears. Be nice, be kind– respect- accept. Yet, Mona???
Not so much.
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:10 am
The liberals are the bigger squelchers of free speech, not the conservatives. After all, who conceived the idea of ‘hate speech’?
In many circles there is only one way to think [as Orwell portrayed]. And when I hear someone extol the inclusion of ‘like-minded people’, I’m assuming there is gross intolerance of anyone whose thinking is the least bit different.
Freedom of speech and freedom of thought are basic to our other freedoms and must be protected. How closely this concept is embraced depends upon whose ox is being gored, I guess.
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:17 am
karen, that’s so funny! My wife and I started using the phrase “Use your words!” when Catherine got old enough to have words. (Words we understood, anyway.)I don’t think we knew anyone else does it. But it is obvious when you think about it.
karen said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:23 am
I believe that, you believe that– what is the Truth of the matter, then, mockT? That everyone who thinks they are open-minded are not really?
ps– spudly, if you read this… i watched three videos of Margret Sanger being interviewed by Mike Wallace. She is not against abortion– it’s a necessary tool to use when the birth control wasn’t, as far as i understood it. She seriously reminded me of a Dr Phil attendee trying to wiggle out of her own words… “I never said that””I was misquoted” “I don’t believe i’ve ever uttered those words in my life” attitude. Wiggly, wormy and not owning up to her own values.
From reading some of her writing- her interview doesn’t ring anywhere near the truth of her views. I took her for face value- spud, not some right- wing(ed)interpretation of what she was saying.
I also heard an interview w/one young lady– Gianna Jessen. Ever heard of her? Survivor of abortion, aborted @71/2 months of her bioMom’s pregnancy via saline solution and lived to tell the details. Beautiful girl that– if President Obama had his way(or Sanger had hers)would have been left to die w/out assistance.
Google Gianna Jessen, spud. Then do so for Sanger.
One of these things is not like the other………………….
karen said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:26 am
:0)- i just used “Be nice!” but, i heard it used so much when my kids were Cat’s age, and in preschool.
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:30 am
To be honest, Karen, I don’t believe open-mindedness has anything to do with free speech. And I happen believe that if you stand for nothing, you will fall for anything. I don’t have to be open to your ideas. I don’t even have to listen to them. But you should have the inalienable right to express them.
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 10:54 am
MT, it starts with freedom of conscience. Everything else flows from that.
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 11:39 am
Right, Ice. And that’s the essence of this country’s foundation.
karen said,
September 28, 2012 at 4:57 pm
UPDATE: NYC Transit Authority Can Now Ban Ads That ‘Incite or Provoke Violence’…
Well- so much for freedom of speech, then.
Mona wins by throwing hateful hissyfit.
Freaking amazing, eh?
mockturtle said,
September 28, 2012 at 5:11 pm
I’ve seen ads that provoke me to violence. The Charmin ads used to do that. Amica commercials still do. ;-D
kngfish said,
September 28, 2012 at 8:01 pm
hmmm…unusual comments about steak sauce here….Oooops! Wrong post! M’bad.
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 11:19 pm
Karen, I don’t really view that as a violation of free speech. They’re selling advertizing space and they can choose who they want to sell it to.
Now what’s bad is that they’re giving a veto power to anyone that wants to throw a hissy fit about whatever. So the Mayor doesn’t like soft-drinks, so now no more soft drink ads. What’s a cola to do?
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 11:24 pm
I’m working on a post that’s at 1487 words and counting. I’m going to need to learn how to do that “See more below” HTML thingy or I’m going to push Ron’s post right off the front page!
I’ve also got one coming up about just how damned SEXY economists are. Seriously! I hope to finish them both this weekend but we’ll see.
Icepick said,
September 28, 2012 at 11:24 pm
Alternately, I need a copy editor, badly!
mockturtle said,
September 29, 2012 at 12:16 am
just how damned SEXY economists are
Oh, yeah! I always had the hots for Greenspan! :-p Bernanke is somewhat sexy but lacks Greenspan’s panache. Paulson [the Keebler elf] and Geithner—-blechh!
mockturtle said,
September 29, 2012 at 12:20 am
Oops. It’s Geithner who’s the Keebler elf. And Paulson’s bald head is awfully sexy but he isn’t. And he’s a liar and probably a thief.
Icepick said,
September 29, 2012 at 2:59 am
And he’s a liar and probably a thief.
He’s both a former head of Goldman-Sachs and a politician, what’d ya expect? ;)
karen said,
September 29, 2012 at 9:23 am
I recently found out that writing on $$$$ is a crime.
Now i stare at Geithner’s signature on the bills and try to burn ~Tax Cheat~ above his name w/my angry eyes.
Not getting any results, as of yet:0).
Charles Krauthammer is sexy.
I’d love to make him laugh.
I never knew Valarie Jarrett was born in Iran- i’ll have to google her life, i guess.
karen said,
September 29, 2012 at 10:17 am
From Ace:
“Irony: Pam Gellar’s ad is “demeaning,” it is asserted, because it implies that violent, intolerant Salafists are “savage.” Her ad states something like, “In a struggle between the civilized man and the savage, support the civilized man.”
Now, the MTA says she can’t run that ad because some people will be unable to restrain themselves from committing acts of violence and mayhem.
Which people?
The savages?”
mockturtle said,
September 29, 2012 at 12:19 pm
Good point, Karen! ;-)
Icepick said,
September 29, 2012 at 7:03 pm
Not getting any results, as of yet.
I think you have to go over to the Dark Side for those kinds of results….
karen said,
September 29, 2012 at 8:25 pm
Well, that ain’t gonna happen, then! I’m afraid of the dark;0).
Had a funny, touchstone thought while milking, tonight.
Today was a ~party~ for the guy who crushed(literally) the sheriff’s fleet up here back in August and i went to his facebook pg– i don’t have a fbk, so i mooch off’n my oldest daughter’s. Anyway, it’s kind of amazing- the stuff that’s on there and the videos and everything. Roger Pion, the Magnificent- if you’re interested.
To support the cause of raising $$$$ for a lawyer, i bought tee shirts made by his folks. 6- one for each of us. And, now- i’m thinking, i will never wear it nor should i let my kids because what he did was way worse than what Mona did– same line of thought and action and i’m agin it. I know the circumstances of the crime, i feel time should be served. Well, the question is– why am i so pissed at Mona and her crime and yet,supportive of Roger in his fight against his crime?
Maybe it’s as simple as class- as in:class warfare? Up here it’s different (than other places.)(not that i would know, maybe every place is the same). Seemingly, those w/the most class here are imports from other places. Our culture is Redneck. Mona would sneer and avoid rednecks, i think. If the savages in the poster had been Rednecks- she would have not given a 2nd look or thought. Besides, it wAS OBVIOUSLY A SET UP, EXCEPT FOR THE OPPOSITION OF pAM. oOOoOPS, i always do that:0).
I wonder why i care so much- why it bothers me so much?
I really need to chill out.